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Re: Mspgcc-users Digest, Vol 102, Issue 3

Kees Schoenmakers
Hello Friends,

I have a shellscript from the past that I used to build my mspgcc tools. I am
testing it now if it still works.

It builds mspgcc 4.7.0, msp binutils, mspgdb and the libraries.

I will post it if the results are good. I'am running Ubuntu 14.04  LTS
for some time.

Kees

On 12/8/14, [hidden email]
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Send Mspgcc-users mailing list submissions to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Mspgcc-users digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: .data initialization not working (Nicholas Clifton)
>    2. Re: .data initialization not working (Peter Bigot)
>    3. Re: .data initialization not working (Paul Sokolovsky)
>    4. Re: .data initialization not working (Peter Bigot)
>    5. Re: .data initialization not working (Eric Price)
>    6. Re: .data initialization not working (Grant Edwards)
>    7. Re: .data initialization not working (Grant Edwards)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 14:36:15 +0000
> From: Nicholas Clifton <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Mspgcc-users] .data initialization not working
> To: Eric Price <[hidden email]>,
> [hidden email]
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Hi Guys,
>
>>    I have attached a patch which will restore the old "movedata"
>> functionality to the toolchain.
>
> Strange - the attachment disappeared.  Here it is again.
>
> Cheers
>    Nick
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 08:42:28 -0600
> From: Peter Bigot <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Mspgcc-users] .data initialization not working
> To: Nicholas Clifton <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Message-ID:
> <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Unfortunately this list doesn't support attachments.  Perhaps somebody
> could put it on E2E and add a pointer.
>
> Interesting that TI proposed a solution that doesn't work for ROM resident
> applications, which are all but the most infinitesimal subset of the
> applications that use an MSP430.  (It's so implausible I'm half convinced I
> don't understand exactly what's happened here.)
>
> Peter
>
> On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 8:36 AM, Nicholas Clifton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>>     I have attached a patch which will restore the old "movedata"
>>> functionality to the toolchain.
>>>
>>
>> Strange - the attachment disappeared.  Here it is again.
>>
>> Cheers
>>   Nick
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
>> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
>> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
>> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
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>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>> _______________________________________________
>> Mspgcc-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mspgcc-users
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 17:01:08 +0200
> From: Paul Sokolovsky <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Mspgcc-users] .data initialization not working
> To: Peter Bigot <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Message-ID: <20141208170108.4b4a00de@x230>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Hello,
>
> On Mon, 8 Dec 2014 08:42:28 -0600
> Peter Bigot <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately this list doesn't support attachments.  Perhaps somebody
>> could put it on E2E and add a pointer.
>
> Or maybe RedHat even has version control system, maybe even with web
> interface?
>
>>
>> Interesting that TI proposed a solution that doesn't work for ROM
>> resident applications, which are all but the most infinitesimal
>> subset of the applications that use an MSP430.  (It's so implausible
>> I'm half convinced I don't understand exactly what's happened here.)
>
> Peter, can you please consider maintaining mspgcc for couple years
> more, while dear esteemed vendors sort out issue how to teleport
> application code out of thin air into RAM?
>
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 8:36 AM, Nicholas Clifton <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Guys,
>> >
>> >     I have attached a patch which will restore the old "movedata"
>> >> functionality to the toolchain.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Strange - the attachment disappeared.  Here it is again.
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> >   Nick
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
>> > from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and
>> > Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App
>> > Integration & more Get technology previously reserved for
>> > billion-dollar corporations, FREE
>> >
>> > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Mspgcc-users mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mspgcc-users
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
>  Paul                          mailto:[hidden email]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 09:13:33 -0600
> From: Peter Bigot <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Mspgcc-users] .data initialization not working
> To: Paul Sokolovsky <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "GCC for MSP430 - http://mspgcc.sf.net"
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID:
> <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 9:01 AM, Paul Sokolovsky <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> On Mon, 8 Dec 2014 08:42:28 -0600
>> Peter Bigot <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > Unfortunately this list doesn't support attachments.  Perhaps somebody
>> > could put it on E2E and add a pointer.
>>
>> Or maybe RedHat even has version control system, maybe even with web
>> interface?
>>
>> >
>> > Interesting that TI proposed a solution that doesn't work for ROM
>> > resident applications, which are all but the most infinitesimal
>> > subset of the applications that use an MSP430.  (It's so implausible
>> > I'm half convinced I don't understand exactly what's happened here.)
>>
>> Peter, can you please consider maintaining mspgcc for couple years
>> more, while dear esteemed vendors sort out issue how to teleport
>> application code out of thin air into RAM?
>>
>
> Unfortunately, no.  I switched all my development machines to Ubuntu 14.04
> this weekend, and mspgcc won't build because it uses outdated binutils and
> gcc sources.  I backported some of the changes, but the host gcc ICEs on a
> gcc 4.7.2 source file not obviously related to msp430.  So that's the end
> of that.
>
> It'd probably be pretty easy to fork my msp430-elf repository and upstream
> gcc and fix about half the issues we're discussing, but I'm irritated
> enough with how TI's managing the MSP430 product line these days that I'm
> not really motivated to keep trying to bail them out.
>
> More importantly, I've found an interesting position that actually pays me
> for what I can do, so I really need to focus on that.  There we're using
> ARM chips; much nicer.
>
> Peter (going back to work now)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 16:14:58 +0100
> From: Eric Price <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Mspgcc-users] .data initialization not working
> To: [hidden email]
> Message-ID: <[hidden email].>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On Mon, 08 Dec 2014 14:33:15 +0000
> Nicholas Clifton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> ...
>> Previously there was an implicit
>> assumption that the executable would be stored in the ROM of the
>> system and that at program startup there would have to be an explicit
>> copying of data from the ROM image into RAM.  With the current linker
>> scripts there is an assumption that the executable is stored
>> externally, and it is brought into system memory before execution
>> begins.  With this scenario there is no need to copy data between ROM
>> and RAM as the data is just loaded directly into RAM.
>>
>
> The weird thing here is, that although the .data segment holding
> static initialization for global variables is being loaded into RAM
> (such implying some sort of external loading mechanism)
> the .text and .rodata segments containing program code and constants
> are still stored in the ROM segments.
>
> Having data in RAM would make sense under the premise that program code
> is also stored volatile and loaded into memory my means of a debugger,
> another program or other external means. (afaik one of the
> advertised features of the new toolchain version is execution from RAM
> on msp430, isn't it?)
>
> But since the default linker file still have their code in ROM
> that would mean
>
> 1 either the program is stored externally, but then it would have to
> flash/erase/overwrite the ROM section as well as copy its
> initialization data to RAM in order to execute - that makes no sense
>
> 2 or the program is stored in ROM to begin with, but then it needs to
> magically have its RAM contents appear out of thin air after any sort
> of reset - that also makes no sense
>
> 3 or its simply silently assumed that static initialization of global
> variables is an unneeded feature no longer supported by msp430gcc - but
> even then the compiler would have to at least issue a warning whenever
> it encounters a thus rendered non-functional static variable assignment
> and not silently ignore it which causes countless of existing embedded
> applications to show undetermined behavior when executed
>
>
> to me the change to the TI linker scripts simply makes no sense
>
>
> cheers
>
> Eric
>
> --
> Eric Price
> TTI GmbH - TGU Smartmote
> Pfaffenwaldring 4
> D-70569 Stuttgart
>
> Tel.: +49 0711 - 6856 5369
> Fax.: +49 0711 - 6856 6818
> E-mail: [hidden email]
> Homepage: http://www.smartmote.de
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 16:54:04 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Grant Edwards <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Mspgcc-users] .data initialization not working
> To: [hidden email]
> Message-ID: <m64l3c$2mk$[hidden email]>
>
> On 2014-12-08, Nicholas Clifton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi Peter,
>>
>>> Nick: Are you saying that the linker scripts are changing so that a
>>> global
>>> variable definition like this:
>>>
>>> int myvar = 43;
>>>
>>> will result in myvar being stored in RAM, and no initialization of it so
>>> the value of myvar when main starts is not 43?
>>
>> No.  I am saying that myvar will be stored in the .data section of the
>> executable image and that its value in this image, will be set to 43.
>> In addition the section header for the .data section will be set to an
>> address in RAM, so that when the executable is loaded into the MCU's
>> memory the correctly initialised variable will be ready to be used.
>
> That makes no sense.  Code is is flash.  On startup, where is that 43
> going be?  If it's not in flash, where?
>
>> What has changed is the presumption of where the executable is stored
>> before it starts executing.
>>
>> Previously there was an implicit assumption that the executable would
>> be stored in the ROM of the system and that at program startup there
>> would have to be an explicit copying of data from the ROM image into
>> RAM.
>
> That's how embedded microprocessors that run from flash _work_.
>
>> With the current linker scripts there is an assumption that the
>> executable is stored externally, and it is brought into system memory
>> before execution begins.
>
> So you're assuming that an MSP430 with a few KB of flash and a few
> hundred bytes of RAM is running some sort of OS that's going to load
> the program from disk into RAM and run it?
>
>> With this scenario there is no need to copy data between ROM and RAM
>> as the data is just loaded directly into RAM.
>
> By _WHAT_?
>
> --
> Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Life is a
> POPULARITY
>                                   at               CONTEST!  I'm
> REFRESHINGLY
>                               gmail.com            CANDID!!
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 16:57:47 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Grant Edwards <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Mspgcc-users] .data initialization not working
> To: [hidden email]
> Message-ID: <m64lab$2mk$[hidden email]>
>
> On 2014-12-08, Peter Bigot <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Unfortunately this list doesn't support attachments.  Perhaps somebody
>> could put it on E2E and add a pointer.
>>
>> Interesting that TI proposed a solution that doesn't work for ROM
>> resident applications, which are all but the most infinitesimal
>> subset of the applications that use an MSP430.  (It's so implausible
>> I'm half convinced I don't understand exactly what's happened here.)
>
> I agree.  This is completely baffling.  Either somebody has
> incorrectly described what's going on, or we're all supposed to hook
> up disk-drives and blocks of SDRAM to our '430s and run some sort of
> OS on them.
>
> --
> Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I'm having a
> RELIGIOUS
>                                   at               EXPERIENCE ... and I
> don't
>                               gmail.com            take any DRUGS
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mspgcc-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mspgcc-users
>
>
> End of Mspgcc-users Digest, Vol 102, Issue 3
> ********************************************
>

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Re: Mspgcc-users Digest, Vol 102, Issue 3

Manuel Wick
Hi Kees,

I'm very interrested in your script, since I switched to Fedora 20/21
recently and my old mspgcc builds are missing older libraries now.

I tried to go with the TI toolchain, but seem to be stumbling over the
recent findings on the list as well. I'm not too sure about that, but
spent too much debugging of the toolchain until now, which I find very
frustrating (since I'm working nearly exclusively with ARM since a
longer time now, which has a very mature gcc implementation).

Cheers,
Manuel

Am 15.12.2014 um 12:29 schrieb Kees Schoenmakers:

> Hello Friends,
>
> I have a shellscript from the past that I used to build my mspgcc tools. I am
> testing it now if it still works.
>
> It builds mspgcc 4.7.0, msp binutils, mspgdb and the libraries.
>
> I will post it if the results are good. I'am running Ubuntu 14.04  LTS
> for some time.
>
> Kees

--
Manuel Wick
eMail: [hidden email]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
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Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
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