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MSP430 GCC goes Red Hat

Mitnacht, Thomas
Hello GCC-enthusiasts!

We wanted to give everyone in the MSPGCC community some exciting news regarding the MSP430(tm) MCU portfolio and its GCC offering. TI is collaborating with Red Hat to develop a new GCC offering that will incorporate as much as feasible of what the community has developed. The team at Texas Instruments cannot thank the community enough for all of the efforts involved in improving our GCC offering for MSP430 MCUs! With your help, TI has been able to grow closer to the open source community & GCC has become a key part of MSP430 MCU strategy. The MSP430 team looks forward to this new partnership to further improve our open source presence. We are working with Red Hat to create a new GCC offering for MSP430 MCUs and future platforms, with the ultimate goal of being upstreamed into the main FSF GCC branch that is actively supported for the long-term.

We are aiming to have a working beta before the end of the year, and are shooting for a public release sometime early next year. Stay tuned.

The MSP430 Team

Texas Instruments Deutschland GmbH, Haggertystr. 1, D-85356 Freising. Amtsgericht M?nchen HRB 40960. Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Dr. Wolfram Tietscher. Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates: Edgar Frank



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Re: MSP430 GCC goes Red Hat

Peter Bigot-4
On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 4:01 AM, Mitnacht, Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hello GCC-enthusiasts!
>
> We wanted to give everyone in the MSPGCC community some exciting news regarding the MSP430(tm) MCU portfolio and its GCC offering. TI is collaborating with Red Hat to develop a new GCC offering that will incorporate as much as feasible of what the community has developed. The team at Texas Instruments cannot thank the community enough for all of the efforts involved in improving our GCC offering for MSP430 MCUs! With your help, TI has been able to grow closer to the open source community & GCC has become a key part of MSP430 MCU strategy. The MSP430 team looks forward to this new partnership to further improve our open source presence. We are working with Red Hat to create a new GCC offering for MSP430 MCUs and future platforms, with the ultimate goal of being upstreamed into the main FSF GCC branch that is actively supported for the long-term.
>
> We are aiming to have a working beta before the end of the year, and are shooting for a public release sometime early next year. Stay tuned.
>
> The MSP430 Team

As the sole maintainer of mspgcc and its component packages for the
last two years, I endorse this decision.

I originally started contributing simply because I wanted an MSP430
toolchain that supported the CC430 and that I could run on Linux
without paying $4K for the privilege of running an IDE under a Windows
emulator.  I continued because I thought it needed doing, was able to
do it, and mostly enjoyed it.

Today, I believe LTS-20120406 (gcc 4.6) and dev 20120911 (gcc 4.7 with
20-bit MSP430 support) have both been demonstrated to be remarkably
stable, supporting the entire MSP430 product line comprising over 350
MCUs.  I have no plans for further enhancements or releases of mspgcc.
 I will probably continue to provide patches for any serious bugs that
are reported until the new implementation is available.  I have also
offered to be a resource to Red Hat and TI to assist in preserving the
existing capabilities and interfaces of mspgcc to whatever degree is
appropriate.

However, a majority of my effort has been, well, unpaid (which is NOT
the intended meaning of "free software").  It's time to focus on other
things, such as http://pabigot.github.com/bsp430/ and other
infrastructure tools and environments associated with my consulting
business.  I've taken mspgcc as far as I personally care to, and look
forward to somebody else taking responsibility for the next steps.
Somebody who has the necessary influence with the GCC core developers
to push for internal changes that will make supporting such an unusual
architecture simpler, the experience to implement the reload
optimizations that would help mspgcc generate more "atomic" code, and
the time and motivation to update gdb to support all the CPUX
enhancements that have been added to binutils.  I believe the open
source MSP430 development community will benefit greatly from the
involvement of Red Hat with TI support.

Peter

>
> Texas Instruments Deutschland GmbH, Haggertystr. 1, D-85356 Freising. Amtsgericht M?nchen HRB 40960. Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Dr. Wolfram Tietscher. Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates: Edgar Frank
>
>
>
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Re: MSP430 GCC goes Red Hat

Yama Ploskonka-2
Hmmm, good news as in some level of official support, but mixed on what
Peter is up to... I finally am making some sense of some
beyond-Hello-World peculiarities of mspgcc. BSP looks like something I
might look at when I grow up...

Let me add a /vintén/, maybe somewhat off-topic but maybe relevant in
the Big Picture.

For too long now, I have been involved with the One Laptop Per Child
community and several offshots. Personally I am convinced that MCUs are
one very meaningful next step for the few that are capable.
When by accident it turned out that I was able to do Launchpad with
little pain using an OLPC XO laptop, I was hooked to the mspgcc tools.
Low cost + actually working in Linux is an unbeatable combination, for
me and this peculiar market of kids everywhere, a handful of them with
enormous potential but nowhere to go
I am finding it is not easy at all, despite TI's official support and
forums and such. Maybe because so far mspgcc was very much the poor
relative? I can get any sort of Arduino code for pretty much anything,
for the Launchpad it's a toss, and then what I find is likely for some
other toolchain, with enough nuances in the code as to make it very hard
for me, and well nigh impossible for XO kids to move beyond the very basic.

Now, Wikipedia says one of the two major TI Divisions is Education.
Hopefully it goes beyond http://xkcd.com/768 ;.) and then, as TI figures
out how to better work with us open source types, mspgcc will get some
well needed boost, and we all benefit - and TI too, they have much to
gain if they become relevant for this peculiar, tiny but oh so important
segment of the market, where well-placed investment could make a real
impact.



On 10/26/2012 04:33 AM, Peter Bigot wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 4:01 AM, Mitnacht, Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hello GCC-enthusiasts!
>>
>> We wanted to give everyone in the MSPGCC community some exciting news regarding the MSP430(tm) MCU portfolio and its GCC offering. TI is collaborating with Red Hat to develop a new GCC offering that will incorporate as much as feasible of what the community has developed. The team at Texas Instruments cannot thank the community enough for all of the efforts involved in improving our GCC offering for MSP430 MCUs! With your help, TI has been able to grow closer to the open source community & GCC has become a key part of MSP430 MCU strategy. The MSP430 team looks forward to this new partnership to further improve our open source presence. We are working with Red Hat to create a new GCC offering for MSP430 MCUs and future platforms, with the ultimate goal of being upstreamed into the main FSF GCC branch that is actively supported for the long-term.
>>
>> We are aiming to have a working beta before the end of the year, and are shooting for a public release sometime early next year. Stay tuned.
>>
>> The MSP430 Team
> As the sole maintainer of mspgcc and its component packages for the
> last two years, I endorse this decision.
>
> I originally started contributing simply because I wanted an MSP430
> toolchain that supported the CC430 and that I could run on Linux
> without paying $4K for the privilege of running an IDE under a Windows
> emulator.  I continued because I thought it needed doing, was able to
> do it, and mostly enjoyed it.
>
> Today, I believe LTS-20120406 (gcc 4.6) and dev 20120911 (gcc 4.7 with
> 20-bit MSP430 support) have both been demonstrated to be remarkably
> stable, supporting the entire MSP430 product line comprising over 350
> MCUs.  I have no plans for further enhancements or releases of mspgcc.
>   I will probably continue to provide patches for any serious bugs that
> are reported until the new implementation is available.  I have also
> offered to be a resource to Red Hat and TI to assist in preserving the
> existing capabilities and interfaces of mspgcc to whatever degree is
> appropriate.
>
> However, a majority of my effort has been, well, unpaid (which is NOT
> the intended meaning of "free software").  It's time to focus on other
> things, such as http://pabigot.github.com/bsp430/ and other
> infrastructure tools and environments associated with my consulting
> business.  I've taken mspgcc as far as I personally care to, and look
> forward to somebody else taking responsibility for the next steps.
> Somebody who has the necessary influence with the GCC core developers
> to push for internal changes that will make supporting such an unusual
> architecture simpler, the experience to implement the reload
> optimizations that would help mspgcc generate more "atomic" code, and
> the time and motivation to update gdb to support all the CPUX
> enhancements that have been added to binutils.  I believe the open
> source MSP430 development community will benefit greatly from the
> involvement of Red Hat with TI support.
>
> Peter
>
>> Texas Instruments Deutschland GmbH, Haggertystr. 1, D-85356 Freising. Amtsgericht M?nchen HRB 40960. Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Dr. Wolfram Tietscher. Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates: Edgar Frank
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Everyone hates slow websites. So do we.
>> Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics
>> Download AppDynamics Lite for free today:
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct
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> Download AppDynamics Lite for free today:
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Re: MSP430 GCC goes Red Hat

David Brown-40
In reply to this post by Peter Bigot-4
If Peter says this is a good move, then it is a good move.

TI's support of open source, and msp430 open source in particular, has
been a mixed bag - but this looks like a clear and positive move.  Of
all the companies TI could have partnered with here, Red Hat is
definitely a good choice with a strong record of making good tools, and
working openly with the community.



When a basically proprietary company like TI "takes over" an open source
project, it is always a cause for some concern - will they try to close
off all or part of the development effort, and perhaps move towards
turning the zero-cost tools into "commercial open source".  (It is fair
enough paying for extras over and above the open source toolsets,
including support - but it is /not/ fair for a commercial company to
take volunteers' hard work, repackage it as "official" and then charge
for it.)  In some cases, the "official" maintaining company makes it
hard for other developers and volunteers to work with them.

In this case, I am not particularly afraid of this.  For one thing, the
actual development community around these tools is very small at the
moment - it is close to a one-man show.  The project is strongly in need
of someone to work on aspects such as the debugger, and tidy some of the
parts that have languished over the years.  But sometimes conflicts do
occur - it is important to draw lessons from similar projects such as
gcc for the AVR which has an open source community and backing from
Atmel.  There are currently two "official" avr-gcc toolchains - the one
from Atmel and the one from the FSF are not identical (though most
changes and patches move across from one to the other eventually), and
the two development groups are not always entirely in agreement.

I would not be surprised to see Red Hat charging for development tools
based on msp430 gcc - they already provide "GNUPro" packages for other
targets.  But as long as this is in addition to official free packages
(distributed by Red Hat or TI), then such paid-for packages would be a
good extra option for corporate customers who are looking for
commercially packaged toolsets with a strong support base (and Red Hat
is famous for its strong support).


And of course, nothing provides respectability for a toolchain better
than support (financially and publicly) by the manufacturer of the chips
in question!


A few things still concern me a little.  One is that TI should go out of
their way to recognise the enormous amount of hard work done by Peter
Bigot and the previous mspgcc developers (such as Dmitry Diky, Chris
Liechti, Steve Underwood, etc.).  TI can never repay them for their work
- but they /can/ make sure they are thanked for it.


Another issue is that TI make and sell their own msp430 toolchain - Code
Composer Studio.  I would like to hear exactly how TI see CCS and gcc
fitting together and/or competing.  It is certainly possible for TI to
support both toolchains, but it could be a delicate path to tread.


Other than that, I wish all involved the best of luck with this move.  I
will be looking forward to trying out the tools when they are ready.

David Brown




On 26/10/12 11:33, Peter Bigot wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 4:01 AM, Mitnacht, Thomas <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>> Hello GCC-enthusiasts!
>>
>> We wanted to give everyone in the MSPGCC community some exciting
>> news regarding the MSP430(tm) MCU portfolio and its GCC offering.
>> TI is collaborating with Red Hat to develop a new GCC offering that
>> will incorporate as much as feasible of what the community has
>> developed. The team at Texas Instruments cannot thank the community
>> enough for all of the efforts involved in improving our GCC
>> offering for MSP430 MCUs! With your help, TI has been able to grow
>> closer to the open source community & GCC has become a key part of
>> MSP430 MCU strategy. The MSP430 team looks forward to this new
>> partnership to further improve our open source presence. We are
>> working with Red Hat to create a new GCC offering for MSP430 MCUs
>> and future platforms, with the ultimate goal of being upstreamed
>> into the main FS
> F GCC branch that is actively supported for the long-term.
>>
>> We are aiming to have a working beta before the end of the year,
>> and are shooting for a public release sometime early next year.
>> Stay tuned.
>>
>> The MSP430 Team
>
> As the sole maintainer of mspgcc and its component packages for the
> last two years, I endorse this decision.
>
> I originally started contributing simply because I wanted an MSP430
> toolchain that supported the CC430 and that I could run on Linux
> without paying $4K for the privilege of running an IDE under a
> Windows emulator.  I continued because I thought it needed doing, was
> able to do it, and mostly enjoyed it.
>
> Today, I believe LTS-20120406 (gcc 4.6) and dev 20120911 (gcc 4.7
> with 20-bit MSP430 support) have both been demonstrated to be
> remarkably stable, supporting the entire MSP430 product line
> comprising over 350 MCUs.  I have no plans for further enhancements
> or releases of mspgcc. I will probably continue to provide patches
> for any serious bugs that are reported until the new implementation
> is available.  I have also offered to be a resource to Red Hat and TI
> to assist in preserving the existing capabilities and interfaces of
> mspgcc to whatever degree is appropriate.
>
> However, a majority of my effort has been, well, unpaid (which is
> NOT the intended meaning of "free software").  It's time to focus on
> other things, such as http://pabigot.github.com/bsp430/ and other
> infrastructure tools and environments associated with my consulting
> business.  I've taken mspgcc as far as I personally care to, and
> look forward to somebody else taking responsibility for the next
> steps. Somebody who has the necessary influence with the GCC core
> developers to push for internal changes that will make supporting
> such an unusual architecture simpler, the experience to implement the
> reload optimizations that would help mspgcc generate more "atomic"
> code, and the time and motivation to update gdb to support all the
> CPUX enhancements that have been added to binutils.  I believe the
> open source MSP430 development community will benefit greatly from
> the involvement of Red Hat with TI support.
>
> Peter
>
>>
>> Texas Instruments Deutschland GmbH, Haggertystr. 1, D-85356
>> Freising. Amtsgericht M?nchen HRB 40960. Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Dr.
>> Wolfram Tietscher. Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates: Edgar Frank
>>


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Re: MSP430 GCC goes Red Hat

Grant Edwards-6
On 2012-10-26, David Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Another issue is that TI make and sell their own msp430 toolchain -
> Code Composer Studio.  I would like to hear exactly how TI see CCS
> and gcc fitting together and/or competing.  It is certainly possible
> for TI to support both toolchains, but it could be a delicate path to
> tread.

TI is still prentending that Code Composter for the '430 is "real"?

The last time I went to an MSP430 event (which was a few years ago),
the FAE openly discouraged people from trying CC for the '430.  He
told everybody to use IAR for playing with eval kits (he also briefly
mentioned gcc).

World+dog seemed to be of a single mind: that CC for the 430 was
useless, but management at TI didn't want to admit it in public.

--
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! In 1962, you could buy
                                  at               a pair of SHARKSKIN SLACKS,
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Re: MSP430 GCC goes Red Hat

David Brown-40
On 26/10/12 21:28, Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2012-10-26, David Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Another issue is that TI make and sell their own msp430 toolchain -
>> Code Composer Studio.  I would like to hear exactly how TI see CCS
>> and gcc fitting together and/or competing.  It is certainly possible
>> for TI to support both toolchains, but it could be a delicate path to
>> tread.
>
> TI is still prentending that Code Composter for the '430 is "real"?
>
> The last time I went to an MSP430 event (which was a few years ago),
> the FAE openly discouraged people from trying CC for the '430.  He
> told everybody to use IAR for playing with eval kits (he also briefly
> mentioned gcc).
>
> World+dog seemed to be of a single mind: that CC for the 430 was
> useless, but management at TI didn't want to admit it in public.
>

Well, I have my opinions on CC for the msp430, and they are not high -
we have a couple of projects that use it, because when they started we
needed to use 20-bit msp430's and gcc support for 20-bit was not yet
stable.  But I don't want to go into detail about what I found bad about
CC for the msp430, as there have been several new versions since them -
maybe things have improved.

But I would like to hear what TI's official position is here.  While
there are a lot of people that might feel the world would be a better
place if TI dropped CC for the msp430 and replaced it with Red Hat's
upcoming msp430 gcc (or merged the best features of the two into one
package), I would like to know what /TI/ plans.

mvh.,

David


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Re: MSP430 GCC goes Red Hat

Peter Bigot-4
I believe Thomas is out of the office until the end of the week, so
any follow-up from TI would probably not be immediate.

Regarding conflict when TI supports both GCC and CCS, I understand
that ARM owns Keil but also is taking over as primary developer for
the ARM back-end of GCC to help improve its quality, so the situation
there is similar.

I don't have a problem with that.  There will always be corporations
that want the comfort of enhanced support, believe using GPL puts
their IP at risk, and have enough money to buy expensive toolchains
regardless of actual merit.  But that's a discussion that should be in
a different thread, as is a technical assessment of CCS.

Peter

On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 6:40 AM, David Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 26/10/12 21:28, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2012-10-26, David Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Another issue is that TI make and sell their own msp430 toolchain -
>>> Code Composer Studio.  I would like to hear exactly how TI see CCS
>>> and gcc fitting together and/or competing.  It is certainly possible
>>> for TI to support both toolchains, but it could be a delicate path to
>>> tread.
>>
>> TI is still prentending that Code Composter for the '430 is "real"?
>>
>> The last time I went to an MSP430 event (which was a few years ago),
>> the FAE openly discouraged people from trying CC for the '430.  He
>> told everybody to use IAR for playing with eval kits (he also briefly
>> mentioned gcc).
>>
>> World+dog seemed to be of a single mind: that CC for the 430 was
>> useless, but management at TI didn't want to admit it in public.
>>
>
> Well, I have my opinions on CC for the msp430, and they are not high -
> we have a couple of projects that use it, because when they started we
> needed to use 20-bit msp430's and gcc support for 20-bit was not yet
> stable.  But I don't want to go into detail about what I found bad about
> CC for the msp430, as there have been several new versions since them -
> maybe things have improved.
>
> But I would like to hear what TI's official position is here.  While
> there are a lot of people that might feel the world would be a better
> place if TI dropped CC for the msp430 and replaced it with Red Hat's
> upcoming msp430 gcc (or merged the best features of the two into one
> package), I would like to know what /TI/ plans.
>
> mvh.,
>
> David
>
>
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Re: MSP430 GCC goes Red Hat

Vitor Barbosa-2
Dear all,

I really hope that we are not present with a situation similar to
OpenOffice. When it begun to be sponsored by oracle, new versions of
OpenOffice were not created anymore. Hope this project hasn't died for
the "OpenCommunity".

But one thing is for sure, a free tool would give a spread among
hardware devellopers that can keep worried the others micocontrollers
manufacturers  competitors.

Regards,

Vitor Barbosa


-----Mensagem original-----
De: Peter Bigot [mailto:[hidden email]]
Enviada: segunda-feira, 29 de Outubro de 2012 14:47
Para: David Brown
Cc: Grant Edwards; [hidden email]
Assunto: Re: [Mspgcc-users] MSP430 GCC goes Red Hat

I believe Thomas is out of the office until the end of the week, so any
follow-up from TI would probably not be immediate.

Regarding conflict when TI supports both GCC and CCS, I understand that
ARM owns Keil but also is taking over as primary developer for the ARM
back-end of GCC to help improve its quality, so the situation there is
similar.

I don't have a problem with that.  There will always be corporations
that want the comfort of enhanced support, believe using GPL puts their
IP at risk, and have enough money to buy expensive toolchains regardless
of actual merit.  But that's a discussion that should be in a different
thread, as is a technical assessment of CCS.

Peter

On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 6:40 AM, David Brown <[hidden email]>
wrote:
> On 26/10/12 21:28, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2012-10-26, David Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Another issue is that TI make and sell their own msp430 toolchain -
>>> Code Composer Studio.  I would like to hear exactly how TI see CCS
>>> and gcc fitting together and/or competing.  It is certainly possible

>>> for TI to support both toolchains, but it could be a delicate path
>>> to tread.
>>
>> TI is still prentending that Code Composter for the '430 is "real"?
>>
>> The last time I went to an MSP430 event (which was a few years ago),
>> the FAE openly discouraged people from trying CC for the '430.  He
>> told everybody to use IAR for playing with eval kits (he also briefly

>> mentioned gcc).
>>
>> World+dog seemed to be of a single mind: that CC for the 430 was
>> useless, but management at TI didn't want to admit it in public.
>>
>
> Well, I have my opinions on CC for the msp430, and they are not high -

> we have a couple of projects that use it, because when they started we

> needed to use 20-bit msp430's and gcc support for 20-bit was not yet
> stable.  But I don't want to go into detail about what I found bad
> about CC for the msp430, as there have been several new versions since

> them - maybe things have improved.
>
> But I would like to hear what TI's official position is here.  While
> there are a lot of people that might feel the world would be a better
> place if TI dropped CC for the msp430 and replaced it with Red Hat's
> upcoming msp430 gcc (or merged the best features of the two into one
> package), I would like to know what /TI/ plans.
>
> mvh.,
>
> David
>
>
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Re: MSP430 GCC goes Red Hat

David Brown-40
On 29/10/12 16:08, Vitor Barbosa wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> I really hope that we are not present with a situation similar to
> OpenOffice. When it begun to be sponsored by oracle, new versions of
> OpenOffice were not created anymore. Hope this project hasn't died for
> the "OpenCommunity".
>
> But one thing is for sure, a free tool would give a spread among
> hardware devellopers that can keep worried the others micocontrollers
> manufacturers  competitors.
>
> Regards,
>
> Vitor Barbosa
>

I don't think the situation here is at all similar to the OpenOffice one.

But in fact, the case of OpenOffice is an example of the power of open
source software.  OpenOffice development was already rather slow and
awkward under Sun (Sun handled other open source projects, such as
VirtualBox, much better), and a lot of work was done on out-of-tree
versions of OpenOffice.  And although official Oracle OpenOffice
development has not stopped, it suffered a lot when Oracle bought Sun.
The community response was to form "The Document Foundation" and
"LibreOffice".  Because of the open source license used for OpenOffice,
TDF was able to take the code, re-brand it as LibreOffice, then extend
and enhance it.  Oracle still own the name "OpenOffice" - but for most
users, LibreOffice is the way forward.

Similarly, msp430 gcc is always safe.  We (the users) are not guaranteed
that it will be developed as we would like in the future - but we /are/
guaranteed that we /could/ develop it as we like, if we put in the
effort (or pay someone to do the work!).  And we are guaranteed that no
one can take away what we already have.


(Also, let's be fair to Oracle here - they certainly made a mess of
OpenOffice, but they are doing a fine job of VirtualBox, which is
another important open source project.)

mvh.,

David



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Re: MSP430 GCC goes Red Hat

Brendan Conoboy-2
In reply to this post by Mitnacht, Thomas
On 10/26/2012 02:01 AM, Mitnacht, Thomas wrote:
> Hello GCC-enthusiasts!
[snip]

Hi everybody- I am the engineering project manager of the MSP430 effort
at Red Hat.  On behalf of Red Hat and TI we would like to thank the
community, especially Peter Bigot, for his hard work.  Additional thanks
to TI for recognizing the importance of MSPGCC and Free/Open Source
software in general.  At Red Hat, our team's principal goal is to make
MSP430 an officially supported architecture in gcc, gdb and their
associated support libraries.  Having ported and pushed dozens of new
architectures upstream, I can say with confidence that everybody wins
with upstream ports: New features will come to MSP430 with each new
release, bugs get looked at by FSF maintainers, and the community can
diversify its efforts beyond maintaining the compiler tools.  In the
coming weeks and months we will become increasingly active in public as
we make progress in the project.  Thank you!


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Re: MSP430 GCC goes Red Hat

kudiarasu murugesan
Its good to hear that Texas Instruments support msp430 open source
community.

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 4:07 AM, Brendan Conoboy <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 10/26/2012 02:01 AM, Mitnacht, Thomas wrote:
> > Hello GCC-enthusiasts!
> [snip]
>
> Hi everybody- I am the engineering project manager of the MSP430 effort
> at Red Hat.  On behalf of Red Hat and TI we would like to thank the
> community, especially Peter Bigot, for his hard work.  Additional thanks
> to TI for recognizing the importance of MSPGCC and Free/Open Source
> software in general.  At Red Hat, our team's principal goal is to make
> MSP430 an officially supported architecture in gcc, gdb and their
> associated support libraries.  Having ported and pushed dozens of new
> architectures upstream, I can say with confidence that everybody wins
> with upstream ports: New features will come to MSP430 with each new
> release, bugs get looked at by FSF maintainers, and the community can
> diversify its efforts beyond maintaining the compiler tools.  In the
> coming weeks and months we will become increasingly active in public as
> we make progress in the project.  Thank you!
>
>
> --
> Brendan Conoboy / Red Hat, Inc. / [hidden email]
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: MSP430 GCC goes Red Hat

David Brown-4
In reply to this post by Brendan Conoboy-2
On 30/10/2012 23:37, Brendan Conoboy wrote:

> On 10/26/2012 02:01 AM, Mitnacht, Thomas wrote:
>> Hello GCC-enthusiasts!
> [snip]
>
> Hi everybody- I am the engineering project manager of the MSP430 effort
> at Red Hat.  On behalf of Red Hat and TI we would like to thank the
> community, especially Peter Bigot, for his hard work.  Additional thanks
> to TI for recognizing the importance of MSPGCC and Free/Open Source
> software in general.  At Red Hat, our team's principal goal is to make
> MSP430 an officially supported architecture in gcc, gdb and their
> associated support libraries.  Having ported and pushed dozens of new
> architectures upstream, I can say with confidence that everybody wins
> with upstream ports: New features will come to MSP430 with each new
> release, bugs get looked at by FSF maintainers, and the community can
> diversify its efforts beyond maintaining the compiler tools.  In the
> coming weeks and months we will become increasingly active in public as
> we make progress in the project.  Thank you!
>
>

I fully agree about the benefits of getting msp430 support into the
mainline trees for the tools.  While there are benefits in having an
officially supported (by TI and/or Red Hat) out-of-tree build on the
side, everyone wins in having the main work being in-tree.  (A typical
use of the out-of-tree build would be to apply patches for supporting
new devices faster than mainline FSF releases.)

One problem you will face in this move is the copyright situation for
many contributions to msp430 gcc, binutils, gdb and libraries.  As far
as I know, everything has always been contributed with suitable licenses
(GPL, library licenses, etc.), with the exception of some restricted
code for interfacing gdb to msp430 devices that is only available in
binary form - but since the code in question is owned by TI, I guess
you'll get that sorted out!.

However, to get code into FSF trees, you'll need copyright assignments -
and I think it will be a challenge to track down all the people involved
and get the assignments in place.  I believe this has always been one of
the main reasons why mspgcc has not been fully merged upstream.  I am
sure you will get helpful responses if you can get hold of the
appropriate people (and posting to this mailing list is probably a good
start), but I fear you will have to do a certain amount of re-writing.
However, once you have first completed the merge with upstream, it will
make maintenance and development far easier in the future.


I don't know what mailing lists or other channels you will use for
communication during this development (I guess the gcc development list
at least), but please keep us up to date on this list too.

Anyway, good luck in the project - as you say, everyone will win.

mvh.,

David


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Re: MSP430 GCC goes Red Hat

Brendan Conoboy-2
On 10/31/2012 02:27 AM, David Brown wrote:
> I fully agree about the benefits of getting msp430 support into the
> mainline trees for the tools.  While there are benefits in having an
> officially supported (by TI and/or Red Hat) out-of-tree build on the
> side, everyone wins in having the main work being in-tree.  (A typical
> use of the out-of-tree build would be to apply patches for supporting
> new devices faster than mainline FSF releases.)

Couldn't have said it better myself.  Having the port upstream provides
a foundation that anybody can build on top of.  I hope any such
additions will ultimately be sent back upstream, but that is up to the
individual contributor.

> One problem you will face in this move is the copyright situation for
> many contributions to msp430 gcc, binutils, gdb and libraries.
[snip]
> I am
> sure you will get helpful responses if you can get hold of the
> appropriate people (and posting to this mailing list is probably a good
> start), but I fear you will have to do a certain amount of re-writing.

Yes, the copyright situation is quite problematic.  Suffice it to say we
have done and continue to do a significant amount of clean-room coding
to ensure there will be no copyright issues with upstream submission and
acceptance.

> However, once you have first completed the merge with upstream, it will
> make maintenance and development far easier in the future.

Yes!

> I don't know what mailing lists or other channels you will use for
> communication during this development (I guess the gcc development list
> at least), but please keep us up to date on this list too.

TI will likely communicate more here wrt the beta Thomas mentioned in
his initial email, and we'll be watching, discussing there as we go.
Likewise we'll be active on binutils, gcc, and gdb development lists as
we have bug reports or patch submissions.  The finishing touches, making
the new msp tools work well for the community, will definitely require a
lot of discussion, but we're not quite there yet.

> Anyway, good luck in the project - as you say, everyone will win.

Thanks!

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Re: MSP430 GCC goes Red Hat

Eric Decker
One of the outstanding issues with the current 20 bit msp430-gcc is
msp430-gdb doesn't understand enough to work properly.   msp430-gdb should
also be mutated forward to be based on a more modern gdb.  Currently we've
been using 7.2 with the 4.6.3 msp430-gcc toolchain.

Eventually, I hope to take a wack at tweaking gdb to understand the 20 bit
4.7 gcc support.   When I do I hope I can get some pointers.  More
importantly I will need help figuring out how to feed changes upstream.   I
haven't had the pleasure of interacting with upstream GNU/FSF folks so
haven't rented from that particular clue emporium.

Any pointers would be appreciated.

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:01 AM, Brendan Conoboy <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 10/31/2012 02:27 AM, David Brown wrote:
> > I fully agree about the benefits of getting msp430 support into the
> > mainline trees for the tools.  While there are benefits in having an
> > officially supported (by TI and/or Red Hat) out-of-tree build on the
> > side, everyone wins in having the main work being in-tree.  (A typical
> > use of the out-of-tree build would be to apply patches for supporting
> > new devices faster than mainline FSF releases.)
>
> Couldn't have said it better myself.  Having the port upstream provides
> a foundation that anybody can build on top of.  I hope any such
> additions will ultimately be sent back upstream, but that is up to the
> individual contributor.
>
> > One problem you will face in this move is the copyright situation for
> > many contributions to msp430 gcc, binutils, gdb and libraries.
> [snip]
> > I am
> > sure you will get helpful responses if you can get hold of the
> > appropriate people (and posting to this mailing list is probably a good
> > start), but I fear you will have to do a certain amount of re-writing.
>
> Yes, the copyright situation is quite problematic.  Suffice it to say we
> have done and continue to do a significant amount of clean-room coding
> to ensure there will be no copyright issues with upstream submission and
> acceptance.
>
> > However, once you have first completed the merge with upstream, it will
> > make maintenance and development far easier in the future.
>
> Yes!
>
> > I don't know what mailing lists or other channels you will use for
> > communication during this development (I guess the gcc development list
> > at least), but please keep us up to date on this list too.
>
> TI will likely communicate more here wrt the beta Thomas mentioned in
> his initial email, and we'll be watching, discussing there as we go.
> Likewise we'll be active on binutils, gcc, and gdb development lists as
> we have bug reports or patch submissions.  The finishing touches, making
> the new msp tools work well for the community, will definitely require a
> lot of discussion, but we're not quite there yet.
>
> > Anyway, good luck in the project - as you say, everyone will win.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Brendan Conoboy / Red Hat, Inc. / [hidden email]
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: MSP430 GCC goes Red Hat

Mitnacht, Thomas
In reply to this post by Peter Bigot-4
Hello Peter,
Thanks for stepping in. In deed we are already looking into options how to combine the best of both, GCC and CCS.
Nothing is decided so far, so stay tuned...

Thanks,
Thomas Mitnacht


Texas Instruments Deutschland GmbH, Haggertystr. 1, D-85356 Freising. Amtsgericht M?nchen HRB 40960. Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Dr. Wolfram Tietscher. Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates: Edgar Frank

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Bigot [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 3:47 PM
To: David Brown
Cc: Grant Edwards; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Mspgcc-users] MSP430 GCC goes Red Hat

I believe Thomas is out of the office until the end of the week, so any follow-up from TI would probably not be immediate.

Regarding conflict when TI supports both GCC and CCS, I understand that ARM owns Keil but also is taking over as primary developer for the ARM back-end of GCC to help improve its quality, so the situation there is similar.

I don't have a problem with that.  There will always be corporations that want the comfort of enhanced support, believe using GPL puts their IP at risk, and have enough money to buy expensive toolchains regardless of actual merit.  But that's a discussion that should be in a different thread, as is a technical assessment of CCS.

Peter

On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 6:40 AM, David Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 26/10/12 21:28, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2012-10-26, David Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Another issue is that TI make and sell their own msp430 toolchain -
>>> Code Composer Studio.  I would like to hear exactly how TI see CCS
>>> and gcc fitting together and/or competing.  It is certainly possible
>>> for TI to support both toolchains, but it could be a delicate path
>>> to tread.
>>
>> TI is still prentending that Code Composter for the '430 is "real"?
>>
>> The last time I went to an MSP430 event (which was a few years ago),
>> the FAE openly discouraged people from trying CC for the '430.  He
>> told everybody to use IAR for playing with eval kits (he also briefly
>> mentioned gcc).
>>
>> World+dog seemed to be of a single mind: that CC for the 430 was
>> useless, but management at TI didn't want to admit it in public.
>>
>
> Well, I have my opinions on CC for the msp430, and they are not high -
> we have a couple of projects that use it, because when they started we
> needed to use 20-bit msp430's and gcc support for 20-bit was not yet
> stable.  But I don't want to go into detail about what I found bad
> about CC for the msp430, as there have been several new versions since
> them - maybe things have improved.
>
> But I would like to hear what TI's official position is here.  While
> there are a lot of people that might feel the world would be a better
> place if TI dropped CC for the msp430 and replaced it with Red Hat's
> upcoming msp430 gcc (or merged the best features of the two into one
> package), I would like to know what /TI/ plans.
>
> mvh.,
>
> David
>
>
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Re: MSP430 GCC goes Red Hat

Peter Bigot-4
In reply to this post by Brendan Conoboy-2
Would TI and/or Red Hat please update us on the status of this replacement
for mspgcc?  It's four months past the date we were told to expect a beta,
but I see no discussion of patches for MSP430 support on either the
binutils or gcc mailing lists, and no material in  the public repositories
from the GNU project.

Thanks.

Peter

On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Brendan Conoboy <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 02/21/2013 07:12 AM, Luca BRUNO wrote:
> > I haven't seen any status update, initial beta or public code branch
> > since the original announce (if patches have been scattered across
> > several trackers, I may simply have missed them).
> > As such I'd like to ask if the project is still on track and if there
> > is something that external contributors can help in.
>
> Hi Luca,
>
> We'll have an update out shortly, hopefully this week.  Thanks!
>
> --
> Brendan Conoboy / Red Hat, Inc. / [hidden email]
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: MSP430 GCC goes Red Hat

Aljaž Srebrnič
Yeah, some info would be highly appreciated.

Thanks,
Aljaž


On 01/mag/2013, at 15:10, Peter Bigot <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Would TI and/or Red Hat please update us on the status of this replacement
> for mspgcc?  It's four months past the date we were told to expect a beta,
> but I see no discussion of patches for MSP430 support on either the
> binutils or gcc mailing lists, and no material in  the public repositories
> from the GNU project.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Peter
>
> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Brendan Conoboy <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 02/21/2013 07:12 AM, Luca BRUNO wrote:
>>> I haven't seen any status update, initial beta or public code branch
>>> since the original announce (if patches have been scattered across
>>> several trackers, I may simply have missed them).
>>> As such I'd like to ask if the project is still on track and if there
>>> is something that external contributors can help in.
>>
>> Hi Luca,
>>
>> We'll have an update out shortly, hopefully this week.  Thanks!
>>
>> --
>> Brendan Conoboy / Red Hat, Inc. / [hidden email]
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: MSP430 GCC goes Red Hat

Brendan Conoboy-2
In reply to this post by Peter Bigot-4
On 05/01/2013 06:10 AM, Peter Bigot wrote:
> Would TI and/or Red Hat please update us on the status of this
> replacement for mspgcc?  It's four months past the date we were told to
> expect a beta, but I see no discussion of patches for MSP430 support on
> either the binutils or gcc mailing lists, and no material in  the public
> repositories from the GNU project.

Hi folks,

Sorry for the delay getting any additional information out there.  We
are just now starting to push patches into FSF upstream repositories.
Native binutils support for MSP430x was just committed today.

http://sourceware.org/ml/binutils/2013-05/msg00041.html

Patch submissions for gcc, gdb, and sim will follow shortly.

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Re: MSP430 GCC goes Red Hat

Luca Bruno-7
Brendan Conoboy <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> Sorry for the delay getting any additional information out there.  We
> are just now starting to push patches into FSF upstream repositories.
> Native binutils support for MSP430x was just committed today.
>
> http://sourceware.org/ml/binutils/2013-05/msg00041.html
>
> Patch submissions for gcc, gdb, and sim will follow shortly.

Thanks! I've already seen some of them in the respective upstream
repositories, I'll try to give them a spin soon.

Cheers, Luca

--
  .''`.  |               ~<[ Luca BRUNO ~ (kaeso) ]>~
 : :'  : | Email: lucab (AT) debian.org ~ Debian Developer
 `. `'`  | GPG Key ID: 0x3BFB9FB3       ~ Free Software supporter
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Re: MSP430 GCC goes Red Hat

Matthew Hiles
In reply to this post by Peter Bigot-4
It's nearly June. Are there any progress updates?


On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Peter Bigot <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Would TI and/or Red Hat please update us on the status of this replacement
> for mspgcc?  It's four months past the date we were told to expect a beta,
> but I see no discussion of patches for MSP430 support on either the
> binutils or gcc mailing lists, and no material in  the public repositories
> from the GNU project.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Peter
>
> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Brendan Conoboy <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On 02/21/2013 07:12 AM, Luca BRUNO wrote:
> > > I haven't seen any status update, initial beta or public code branch
> > > since the original announce (if patches have been scattered across
> > > several trackers, I may simply have missed them).
> > > As such I'd like to ask if the project is still on track and if there
> > > is something that external contributors can help in.
> >
> > Hi Luca,
> >
> > We'll have an update out shortly, hopefully this week.  Thanks!
> >
> > --
> > Brendan Conoboy / Red Hat, Inc. / [hidden email]
> >
> >
> >
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